Family Reunification under EU law

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emenes
Indlæg: 5
Tilmeldt: 18.12.2012 00:04:24

Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf emenes » 18.12.2012 00:19:34

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone would be able to provide my husband and me with some answers with a possible issue we are facing.

I am due to give birth in a few hours:) and my family reunification application under the Danish national law route was rejected because we are living in a sublet. Immigration authorities claim that our case is straight forward and that I have until Feb 18, 2013 to leave the country after which I can apply for another visa to visit my Danish husband along with my Danish baby and then reapply for family reunification under Danish national law as long as we have housing showing we are renting directly from a landlord or that my husband bought an apartment in Denmark. I am scared as they claim it is straight forward but then I have been reading so many cases where people get kicked out of the country as immigration authorities read the law so literally.

We are considering moving to Sweden and then my husband will commute to work in Denmark and then apply for Family Reunification under EU law. We were however wondering about the following things:

(1) Is there a possibility that our case will be looked harshly on seeing that we were rejected Family Reunification under the Danish law and now trying under the EU law?

(2) How long would we have to remain in Sweden before making the application?

(3) If I apply for a residence permit while in Sweden would I be able to eventually work there while awaiting a decision on reunification under EU law?

(4) What rights would I as a non-EU citizen have in Sweden if I hold a residence permit?

Thanks in advance.

mh
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Tilmeldt: 25.09.2007 11:20:33
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Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf mh » 18.12.2012 10:19:45

1) Absolutely not. They are two completely separate sets of rules. You will not even be questioned about whether you have tried Danish national rules.

2) I suppose you mean before applying for EU-residence in Sweden. You should make the application as soon as your husband has the necessary: 'folkbokföring' = registration as resident i Sweden. There is no advantage in waiting.

3) If you apply using the EU-rules in theory yes, in practice no. Probably no employer will risk employing someone who may eventually be denied residence and thereby have worked as an illegal worker. The fine is heavy.

4) If and when you get a EU-residence permit, or rather: if you are entitled to it, you have the right to work and health care. Since your husband will be working in DK, not in Sweden, you have a very limited right to other social benefits.

5) TIP: it seems that Sweden is automatically assuming that Danish/foreign couples will want to apply for residence permit both according to Swedish national rules and EU-rules, and there is no reason not to, so you should do it clearly.

Using EU-rules you have a right to wait in Sweden while your application is being processed. You don't have that right if you ONLY apply using Swedish rules. However, applying for both at the same time, EU-rules 'wins' so that you can stay in Sweden, even if you end up being given residence under Swedish rules. Win-win for you.
mh

skaanebo
Indlæg: 9396
Tilmeldt: 09.06.2007 19:00:10

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf skaanebo » 18.12.2012 10:25:40

I might add that if you apply by EU law, you're entitled to take up work right away. For practical reasons it can be difficult to find an employer without having a Swedish personal number, so you will need to register for that as well. Some people have had success in doing this, eventhough they hadn't obtained the residence card yet.

mh
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Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf mh » 18.12.2012 10:33:44

We should not forget to mention the 'mamma penning' - as far as I remember you will be entitled to this support to new parents, as soon as your residence permit (which ever you get) is given. :)
mh

emenes
Indlæg: 5
Tilmeldt: 18.12.2012 00:04:24

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf emenes » 18.12.2012 11:07:46

Thanks mh and Skaanebo,

This is quite helpful information from you both as well as from this website generally.

I called the Swedish Embassy in Denmark and was told that because I am already in a Schegen country (Denmark) I cannot apply for a Schegen visa to accompany my husband to Sweden and so would need to apply for a National Visa which allows me a 1 time entry into Sweden for 30 days days from the time it is issued and then I can apply for a residence permit.

(1) Does anyone know how long it takes to obtain a residence permit? I am assuming that if it is longer than 30 days then I may be able to obtain 'procedural stay' in Sweden while my permit application is been processed?

(2) Upon entering Sweden what steps would my husband and I be required to take to settle into Sweden? Foe instance what offices/departments would we need to go to to register our presence in Sweden and begin a life there with hopefully our little girl (still waiting for her to make her debut into this world)

(3) With a residence permit from Sweden, would I be able to travel to Denmark without the need for a visa to attend family functions, or to take the baby to visit her grandparents, great-grand dad, cousins, etc?

Thanks:)

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15307
Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf fundiver199 » 18.12.2012 15:14:23

1) If your husband use the right to free movement in the EU, you have a right to accompany him. So there is no such thing as a “processual stay” in that situation. You are required to have a valid visa upon your entry. But that is only for the purpose of passing immigration control. And since you are already inside Schengen, you have passed immigration control already. And therefore it is only an issue, if you leave Schengen and then want to join your husband in Sweden later. In theory your Schengen visa should still be valid, when you cross the border from Denmark to Sweden. But this is pure theory and due to the fact, that the free movement directive does not take into account the existence of the Schengen agreement, because not all EU-countries participate in this.

2) Basically Skatteverket (your husband), Migrationsverket (your) and then Skatteverket again (you).

3) Yes. Once you have your residence card, you can travel freely all over Schengen for up to 90 days at a time. Until then it is not legal, but in continuation of 1), there is no regular border control inside Schengen. So if you are willing to take the risk of getting into some degree of trouble with danish police in case they snap you up, nothing prevent you from “sneaking” into Denmark from time to time even while waiting for your residence card in Sweden. This is not legal, but if you bring your reciept from Migrationsverket, I very much dought that danish police will do anything more than politely ask you to go back to Sweden, and explain you the rules. In continuation of 1): The fact that your receipt only allow you to be inside Sweden and not in the rest of Schengen is really only because, the free movement directive has not incorporated the Schengen agreement. This formal restriction on your freedom of movement is a reality both pointless and impossible to inforce inside Schengen.

emenes
Indlæg: 5
Tilmeldt: 18.12.2012 00:04:24

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf emenes » 18.12.2012 15:34:04

Hi fundiver,

I guess I would have to apply for some form of visa to enter Sweden as the Schegen visa I used to enter Denmark expired in July and I was in Denmark on procedural stay while my Family Reunification application was been considered. Now that the Family Reunification application was denied, I was allowed a further 2 months to remain in Denmark in order to give birth and then leave. Hence, contemplation of the move to Sweden. In order to legally relocate to Sweden with my Danish husband, I think need to get some form of entry visa for Sweden, which the Swedish embassy claims would be a National Visa (allowing me a 1 time entry into Sweden for 30 days). Hopefully, the application process for the Swedish residence permit does not take too long. But if it happens to take longer than the 30 days I am allowed on the National Visa (if it is given when I apply) then will I have to leave my family in Sweden?

It is good to know that I will be able to travel back and forth freely upon receiving a Swedish Residence Permit. My step-parents are excited about the new addition to the family and would not want to deprive them of having access to the baby. I think I will err on the side of caution and wait until I have all documents and permits squared away before travelling within the EU :)

Once the Swedish Residence Permit is granted would our family have access to Swedish health care, free Swedish classes, etc?

Thanks for all the responses so far.

mh
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Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf mh » 18.12.2012 16:37:16

There is a tiny - very tiny - possibility for being checked when crossing over from DK to Sweden. I think there must be literally hundreds of people who cross the border every day without visa.

You do NOT have to have a valid visa in order to apply for EU-residence, and therefore also not when applying for residence under Swedish rules, so there really is no reason to take the trouble - which is GREAT! Some of the users here have tried to do it the legal way, but could not obtain a visa, precisely because they were already in DK.

So my advice is: don't bother.

Just dress inconspicuously, behave calmly and naturally stick to your husbands side and cross into Sweden by car, train or boat, and pretend that you just cross from Roskilde to Copenhagen. As soon as you set foot in Sweden with your husband you ARE a legal resident. The few seconds in between should not be a big problem.

Normally as a lawyer I would not advice something that is not strictly by the book, but in this case the book has so little meaning that it might as well stay closed.
mh

fundiver199
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Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf fundiver199 » 18.12.2012 20:47:28

Those who have actually tried to obtain a visa at the swedish embassy in Copenhagen have all failed, since the embassy dont have a clue, what the heck they are supposed to issue such a visa for. ÆUG tried to write to the embassy a few years ago, but with no result, at after that we just gave up. The conclusion is, that since swedish authorities aparently dont really bother, that your visa has expired, when you cross the border between Sweden and Denmark, neither should you.

Should you deside to go home, it is however correct information, that for 3 month a schengen visa can not be issued. And you will therefore need to travel on a nationally limited visa, if you want to join your husband in Sweden during these 3 month. Which will prevent you from using the airport in Copenhagen or any other airports outside Sweden as your arrival destination.

emenes
Indlæg: 5
Tilmeldt: 18.12.2012 00:04:24

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf emenes » 18.12.2012 23:53:38

Hi fundiver,

When you say that those who have actually tried to obtain a visa at the Swedish Embassy in Copenhagen have failed... do you mean that these people have tried to apply for a nationally limited visa and have failed to obtain it, or they have tried to apply for some other form of visa?

My husband and I were thinking of driving to Sweden as we would have to take furniture with us so there is no need for an airport at the moment. I guess the national visa would be some form of formality in the event that I am stopped by Swedish authorities then I can show some legal documentation. Is that correct? I am trying so hard not to scream at this moment as I am trying to do the right thing.

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15307
Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf fundiver199 » 19.12.2012 06:21:52

emenes skrev:do you mean that these people have tried to apply for a nationally limited visa and have failed to obtain it


Yes. They all had to give up and go to Sweden without, which worked out just fine.

emenes skrev:I guess the national visa would be some form of formality in the event that I am stopped by Swedish authorities then I can show some legal documentation. Is that correct?


Yes. You dont need it, when you apply for an EU-recidence card at Migrationsverket. So it is really only for your personal comfort, when you cross Øresund by train, bus, car or ferry, which take 20 minutes or less.

emenes
Indlæg: 5
Tilmeldt: 18.12.2012 00:04:24

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf emenes » 19.12.2012 11:22:49

Hi fundiver199,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.
I am trying really hard to keep myself together. There
are a few specific questions I have based on your last response.

(1) you mentioned EU residence card and I was wondering
if an EU residence card is different from a Swedish residence
permit?

(2) is there a difference between the new biometric residence permit card introduced in Sweden 20 May 2011 known as the "UT card" and the new electronic residence permit (eAT) introduced on September 1, 2011? If the latter is the European residence permit can I apply for this card while in Sweden with the Migrationsverket?

I all seems so confusing to me or maybe I am just confusing myself.

(3) is there a specific website I could possibly go to which would
provide me with more information on the EU residence card?

Thanks

fundiver199
Indlæg: 15307
Tilmeldt: 15.07.2008 15:58:34

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf fundiver199 » 19.12.2012 13:19:41

1) Yes
2) I dont know
3) www.migrationsverket.se

The basic rules of the free movement in EU are described under "rådgivning", "flytte til Sverige/EU-land", but only in danish language for now. But it really isn´t rocket science, and there is not much to study or understand besides, what we have already told you here.

mh
Indlæg: 7917
Tilmeldt: 25.09.2007 11:20:33
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Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf mh » 20.12.2012 20:41:22

@ emenes - chill out, enjoy your newborn (I suppose you have given birth by now?) and remember you can be a perfectly good parent, person, spouse etc. WITHOUT doing everything by the book.
mh

DavidHare
Indlæg: 16
Tilmeldt: 30.04.2014 14:51:35

Re: Family Reunification under EU law

Indlægaf DavidHare » 30.04.2014 15:00:10

Hi guys, I am sorry if I am asking you to repeat yourself, but I just want to be sure of the rules and I hope someone here might be able to clarify :-)

My wife and I are currently applying for family reunification in Sweden under EU-law (I'm Danish), but are still waiting for our case to be processed. Is she allowed to travel from Sweden to Spain for a week, given her current residency status? She is a US citizen and would therefore normally be entitled to 3 months of visa free stay in Europe out of every 6, but of course she has been here under her processual residency permit for a while now (7 months).


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